Ursula Marin, M.A., CCC-SLP, shares what's happening in the brain during transitions and walks through regulation-first strategies to make daily routines smoother for all kids.
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Lily Ablon: Excellent. So for those of you who don't know me, I'm Lily, and, I run Trusted Village. It's a community for families navigating neurodiversity, learning differences, IEPs, other kinds of support, at school and at home. I'm gonna just keep adding folks as well. The goal is to create a space where parents and families can connect, share what's actually working, and find trusted resources. When I polled the community about what people were struggling with, or what they wanted to learn more about, transitions came up again and again. Those in-between moments as kids move from one thing to the next. And I'm a mama of two elementary school kids, one of whom has some extra support needs, so transitions are, very real in our house. All that said, I, with all that said, I reached out to Ursula Marin to come speak with us tonight. Ursula is a speech-language pathologist who focuses on supporting kids with regulation, communication, and executive functioning. She works closely with families on very real, everyday challenges, like the ones we're talking about tonight. I got to see a preview of this talk, and I am genuinely excited for it and excited for you to see it. My family has already started trying some of the strategies at home, and they've been really helpful. A couple other logistics before we start. So in addition to recording the main portion, turning it off for Q&A, feel free to drop questions into the chat as we go. I will be keeping an eye on it and helping to moderate. And again, we will have time for Q&A at the end. So with that. I'm going to stop my screen share and turn it over to Ursula.
Ursula Marin: Thank you so much, Lily. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you all so much for being here. This was a great introduction. Like Lily said, I am a speech and language pathologist. And I provide coaching and support for families who want calmer, calmer homes, stronger routines, and children who thrive. I started this work after one of my own children was diagnosed with ADHD. And our home had become filled with friction, stress, and daily struggles. So, I decided to apply my clinical training through an executive functioning lens to redesign our routines, our systems, and our expectations, and the result was more peace of home. And we're also enjoying more connection as a family. And so now I hope families do the same. So, let's get started with transitions. So, before we even go there, let's talk about what even is a transition, right? So, a transition is any change in what your child is doing, thinking, or feeling. So, here are some examples. So, transitioning from activity to activity. Can, does anyone… can anyone give me an example of what a transition from activity to activity is? You could put it on the chat. I don't see the chat, Lily, just by the way, I don't know, now that I'm sharing my screen. Do you… Oh, here it is. Okay, great. So, yeah, so from home to school, yes, that's a great transition. That would be an activity from place to place, homework to dinner, from activity to activity, very good. Cleaning dishes after breakfast, activity to activity, very good. Teachers do transitions from indoors to outdoors, place to place, very good. Yes, and also, we can have activities that are preferred to non-preferred, or even you could do from non-preferred to preferred, that would be an easy transition, and we wouldn't need this talk. And also from a calm state to a demand state. That would be, like, going from just relaxing to doing homework, something you have to really engage your brain in. Playtime to cleaning time, yes, from activity to activity, and that's also preferred to non-preferred. Excellent example. So… I'm trying to change slides, there we go. So now let's talk about why they are so hard. And before we talk about why they're hard for kids, I want to give an example. And please tell me on the chat if you've had this experience before. Who, have any of you ever cooked dinner and been interrupted by your kid, saying, Mom, I need a snack? If you have, please give me a thumbs up or put it on the chat. Yes, oh… Yep, 100%, that's right. I have been there. I know this is probably a very universal parent experience, but now let's think about this for a minute. Why is it so hard? Well, you have to stop what you're doing. We have to stop what you're doing, right? And you've got… you're cooking, you've probably had a long day, you've got the stove on, you're likely following a recipe, the kitchen's messy, you're trying to get food out to everybody, and now you have to stop to address your child. That alone can be frustrating. And then… You have to shift your attention to your child, and you have to actually Think about what they need, and…
Parent: What's a flower!
Ursula Marin: I'm sorry. Oh, there it is. Hi! Yes, shift your attention to your child. And that is another thing that you have to do from… you had momentum, you had your thing going with what you're cooking, and now you're thinking about what your kid needs. And then you have to tolerate frustration, because you likely are upset that you have to leave your food to now deal with this interruption, and it can be frustrating, especially if you're in the groove of things. And then you have to imagine what's next. Now your child has asked you for a snack. Are you gonna say yes or no? And then if you're gonna say yes, you have to think about. which snacks are they gonna have? Am I gonna let them have a Z bar right now, or are we gonna have string cheese? And if they are gonna have the snack, then am I gonna get it for them, or are they gonna get it themselves? And if they get it themselves, are they gonna make a mess in the middle of trying to get it? So there's a lot of things that you're thinking about while you're transitioning from your cooking to your child's request. And then you have to regulate your emotions, because as you're going through all of this in your head, you're frustrated that you can't go back to your cooking, that you have to deal with this, and then you have to decide which snack you're gonna give it to them, and you don't want to lose it on your child, and be, overreact over just a simple request for a snack. And then you have to track time to make sure that you don't burn what you're cooking. And that you go back to your task in a timely fashion. Well, these are all executive functioning skills, and these are all skills that your kid needs when they're transitioning from one activity to the next. And… Transitions can be frustrating, can be challenging, especially when you encounter three things, and I call this a transition triangle. So when there's an emotional load, when they're frustrated, disappointed, or upset, and there's a mental shift, so going from being engaged in this one task to the next. And they're losing control over what's happening. So, I have to shift my attention, manage my emotions, and deal with the fact that I no longer have control over my next activity. When all of these things happen together, you have a really, like, really strong likelihood of a meltdown, or emotional dysregulation. And then, in order to prepare for this, talk, I sent out a survey, and I asked parents, some of their experiences with transitions, and, I want to share what some of people have said, that's challenging for them day to day. So, some people said, my child melts down when asked to stop a preferred activity. That is very real in most of our households, for sure. Getting out of the door is chaos, and we're gonna talk about why that is in just a second. Simple routines become battles, absolutely, that can definitely happen with transitions. Unexpected changes derail the whole day, yes. And I feel exhausted repeating myself, oh yes, these are all things that all of us have experienced, so if you're feeling like any of these are true for you, you're not alone. A lot of us have felt the same way. And these are the top 3 transition challenges that people experience day to day. So the first one is leaving the house. And the second one is screens and games, and the third one is starting homework. So, the number one overall hardest thing that people do every day when it comes to transitions is leaving the house. And we're gonna talk about why that is in a second. But that is such a complex, transition that, first, I'm gonna… I'm gonna go ahead and talk about screens and games, and then starting homework, and I'm gonna circle back to leaving the house and explain to you why that one is so challenging. So, why is it that screens can be so hard, such a hard transition? They are uniquely hard to leave because they involve, they involve… oops, there it is… dopamine reward loss. So, what that means is that the… the strong… they're very, very, The dopamine centers in the brain are very activated when they're engaging in screens, because there's a strong attention capture and instant stimulation from whatever it is that they're doing, watching videos or playing games. And so, leaving that is very, very challenging. And then, we ask… sometimes we ask them to stop abruptly. And, moving into something less prefer. That can also be challenging for the brain to… challenging for the brain to manage. And then they lose control over the activity, they're no longer doing something that they want to do. And then the attention lock-in, the high immersion and hyper focus. Remember, I was talking about the shifting from what you're doing, what you're really, really into, you're in your groove, you're cooking, and now all of a sudden you have to deal with this interruption. That can be a very frustrating shift for children. And then there's no satisfying bridge. They have to go immediately from this thing to the very next thing, which is very non-preferred. And that can be very hard for the brain to manage as well. And this is… these are all very hard neurological shifts. Now, homework is challenging for other reasons. There's no high dopamine reward for homework, right? It's the very complete opposite. So, the task initiation, just mobilizing enough energy to start is challenging, because they might be sleepy, or hungry, or cranky. From a very long day, right? And then they have to sustain attention, meaning that they have to inhibit distractions coming from their environment, and also from within themselves, distracting thoughts that may pop up, something that they found interesting that may just come up randomly. They have to suppress that in order to stay attend to their task. And then they have to, engage, their emotional regulation. They have to tolerate frustration, not only because they're doing something they don't want to do, but also because doing homework can be frustrating in and of itself. The task itself is challenging, so they're tolerating the frustration of doing something they don't want to do, and of doing a challenging task. And then they have to use their working memory. Working memory is an executive functioning skills where you have to hold a lot of things in mind in order to use that information to perform a task. And with homework. There's a lot of moving pieces. They have to read the instruction, and then think about how to do, and then they have to get their pencil, and wait, where did it go? Lots of things for them to do all at once to keep in mind. And then there's a delayed reward. Not like the video game that they do and immediately get the points, right? The reward for doing the homework is getting a good grade, which they're not gonna see until weeks down the road. So, makes it much, much more challenging to stay with that task. So the issue here is often a neurological backlog of all of these things happening at once, and not really attitude, although we may experience it as attitude. And I want to talk about one thing that I highly, highly recommend is to avoid screens before homework as much as you can. Because with, when you're going from screens to homework, you are likely to encounter that transition triangle I talked about before. The emotional load, the frustration regarding the end of the preferred activity and starting the non-preferred activity, and then the fact that the non-preferred activity is cognitively challenging. Very difficult for them. And then there's a mental shift. They were in the groove, winning their games, getting their points, and now they have to switch their attention to this whole other task. That makes it challenging. And then again, there's a loss of control. They are… they wanted to keep playing their game, but now they can't. So, as much as possible, try to do… try to do screens after homework, because screens before homework, there's a high risk of increased dysregulation. And now we're going back to leaving the house and why it's so hard. So, just with what just went over screens and homework, that one transition had 5 little steps. when you're leaving the house, there are many, many, many transitions within the larger transition of getting ready to leave. And each one of these has many, many, many steps. So, I'd like you to just take a quick look at the screen. Oh, I'm sorry, there's… it says it's 14, but there's actually 13 here. Look at which one of these you think might be the hardest for you to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Which part of your morning routine is hardest when it comes to leaving the house? And then please go ahead and put it in the chat. Someone said number 2. From bed to standing, yep, Lily said gathering belongings. Oops, let's go back. Sorry. How do I go back? There it is. Putting on sunscreen! Yeah! Number 14. I could see that. So, yes, sleep to wake is the hardest transition. Gathering belongings, bathroom routine… yeah, bathroom routine, there's so many steps in the bathroom routine. getting dressed. Yes, so… I want you to keep this the one that's hardest for you in mind as we move forward. So, leaving the house is the hardest transition because it's very complex. It includes multiple, multiple multi-step, tasks. And there's so many moving pieces, we have to get ready, we have to get our backs ready, we have to eat breakfast, there's heavy prep with the packing, and for lunch, and homework, and then there's time pressure. And on top of all of that, you have to get out of the door on time to make it to your commitment on time. And so, the best thing that we can do for morning routines is plan for extra time to lower the collective nervous system arousal, because as soon as you start getting stressed out, your kids are stressed out, and then it's for sure gonna be chaos trying to get out of the house. So, this is the tool that I will leave you with today. This is a 5-step transition ladder, that, will give you ways to transition from those activities a bit more smoothly. The first step is to prepare, is to give a warning and a preview of what's coming next. So for example, with your… if you're trying to transition out of screens, you might say something like, okay, we're gonna have… we're gonna play 5 more minutes, and… and then we're gonna go, have dinner. With the bridge, you want to do a small connection between activities, so you don't want to go straight from, playing the video game to dinner. You want to do a small activity in between. So, say, you can charge the iPad together. You say, okay, you're done with the iPad, let's go walk to the charger and put it to charge. Oh, okay, now let's walk to the kitchen. Because giving… that way, the shift isn't as abrupt from going from this very preferred activity to the next thing that I didn't really want to do. Now I'm doing a small task that's related to the thing that I wanted to do before. Oh yes, I want to charge my iPad, because I want to keep playing it next time. I want it to be charged next time I get to play it. And then you are gonna shift, and you, as much as possible, want to include movement with this shift to get the brain ready to then shift the attention. So, you want to do a brief walk, or a brief stretch, to give your body and your brain time to adjust between one activity and the next. And then, you're going to regulate. Your child is going to borrow their regulation from you if they're upset about this. So as much as possible. We want to stay calm and quiet, and physical touch goes a long way with this as well. So, rather than trying to regulate with words, just giving them a squeeze, or a hug, or a quick scratch will be very helpful to help them transition successfully. And then you want to launch and start the new activity. And then at that point, you can go ahead and sit down at the table for dinner, or have… or ask them to help you to set the table, because their brain has had time to shift and prepare. Okay, so this is, I'm going to go over, an example of how to use the 5-step transition ladder with, with the screens. So, the first thing you're going to do is that you want to prepare. You're going to give them 10 more minutes, and then we're having dinner, and you want to do a visual timer, as much as possible, if you can. And I know that I'm gonna get this question later about… So okay, so what if they're… the timer runs out, and they're in the middle of a game still, right? What you want to do is, in this prepare step, you want to establish what's gonna happen then. So, you can say, okay, if the timer's… if the timer goes off while you're playing your game, you can finish that one level, but then you gotta turn it off. what you want to do here is be as consistent as you want, as you can, because consistency is what's going to help you have those smooth transitions. Whatever you can do over and over again, and, I would recommend allowing them to finish whatever it is that they're doing before putting it away, rather than stopping it abruptly in the middle, because the brain does not like open loops. The brain does not like to leave, tasks unfinished. So say, for example, you started folding your laundry, and then all of a sudden, you're like, oh my god, like, I'm late to pick up my kids. Then you're rushing, but then as you're going, you're like, oh my god, but I have so much laundry, and then your mind's just gonna keep coming back to that laundry. And so that's what's gonna happen to their brain if they're asked to stop midway through their game. They're like, oh, but I didn't finish that level, and so they're eating dinner, and still talking about, and perseverating. on, oh, but that level, I was… I almost killed the monster! And what you want to do is try to let their brain close that loop as much as you can. And then move on from there. And then the next thing you want to do is find the bridge. So, carry the device together to the charger, or put the device away in the special place. Just something that involves their device and the next activity to get their brain ready, so that they're, like, not, like, immediately putting it down and having to sit down for dinner. And then you're gonna shift. You want to stand up, stretch, and walk together. Oh, I'm sorry, and I just want to go back really quick to the prepare phase. What you might want to do also. is to sit with them as they're finishing up in the last 2 minutes. Just because it might be better for them to have the physical support to transition, oh, now mom is here. Even if you don't say anything, you're just there sitting next to them, and they're thinking, oh, okay, yeah, that's right, it's… the timer's gonna ring soon, it's gonna be time to transition. That's, gonna give them A little bit more… A little bit more time to switch, their brain a little bit more time to switch. And again, you wanna, you wanna regulate and stay calm. Don't ask them to do anything else other than what you've already asked them to do. You had your plan to turn off the device, and then you can go ahead, And be done with that before you ask for anything else, before you can… before you ask them, okay, go wash your hands, or go set the table for dinner, you want that to be completely done. And once that's done, and everybody's calm and happy, you can go ahead and start the next activity. And what you want to do is you want to guide the shift to what comes next. And then here is the homework 5-step transition ladder. It's a little bit different in the prepare phase, because you want to give them time to mentally switch from a preferred to a non-preferred. So, you let them know, after snack, homework starts at 4.15. Again, with a visual checklist, if you can, of the things that they're gonna need, and a visual timer, so that they are keeping track of time. They don't have to use it in their heads. They don't have to do that in their heads. There's something there that's helping them with that. And then you want to do a bridge. Okay, we're eating snacks, let's put the dishes away, and then grab our materials. You want to have a slow transition as much as possible to give their brain time to adjust. And then you want to shift, and you want to move, physically move. Wall pushups are really good for concentration, so before you start the homework, you can say, okay, we're gonna do 10 wall push-ups to get our brains ready. And then you can sit down and open up the work. And then you want to regulate, you want to validate resistance, but keeps the demand… the demands low. Yeah, it's not gonna be… kids don't like doing homework, so you're more likely than not gonna get, ugh, mom, I don't want to, why right now? So it's totally normal to not want to do homework, you know, it's totally fine, but we still have to do it. And then, after they're regulated, they've done their wall push-ups, you're ready to launch and start on your homework. So now, it's your turn. Remember, I asked you to keep in mind some of, the things that were hard for you with leaving the house. I want you to go ahead and think about… I'll give you a few minutes, and think about, what you might do in the prepare phase, in the thing that you found most challenging about leaving the house in the morning. So, one parent said bathroom routine was very challenging, so what might you do to prepare them for that bathroom routine?
Parent: Oh, go ahead.
Ursula Marin: No, go ahead, no.
Parent: So, just maybe encourage them to put their plate, like you had indicated for the homework post-snack, just a similar thing of, like, once they're able to… Put their plate in the sink, or… and their dishes in the sink, to then… Or sorry, prepare. I didn't answer your question. Yeah. That would be… so, after… after you're finished with your breakfast, where, you know, and after you've taken your plate, or maybe that's too much, and after you've taken your plate to the sink. will… you know, I might give her a choice, for example, are you… You know, are you gonna wash your face first, or brush your teeth first?
Ursula Marin: That's excellent. It's always good giving them, giving them choices. But you also want to just preview and just let her know what's coming next. So you're gonna say, okay, after we're done with breakfast, we're gonna go and do our bathroom stuff, or we're gonna go get ready. Whatever it is that key phrase, keyword that you use with her that signals we're transitioning into the bathroom. And it's great… it's great to give her… to give her a choice of what to do, but sometimes choices can be overwhelming if it's a task that she doesn't want to do. So, give her a warning, and then prepare just whatever it is that… task that's coming next. So what… so what would… what would your usual routine look like? After eating breakfast.
Parent: Yeah, so after eating breakfast, now I'm… I think I'm mixing up a routine. I think typically we do… we… she gets… she changes clothes, and after she changes clothes, then she does her bathroom routine. So…
Ursula Marin: So you see how complicated this is?
Parent: I have it all… I have it all written in our kitchen. Yes. Yeah, so… yeah, okay, so you're asking what would be next after…
Ursula Marin: Okay. Okay, after you get dressed, go, go brush your teeth.
Parent: Yep. Yeah, and then after brush teeth, wash face, and then that would be it, and then she, at that point, had already used the bathroom, and she independently can determine whether she needs to, so I don't ask her about that. So then after… The bathroom, then, we just… she gets socks on, and We do some stuff with her sister, and then just get, you know, have everything ready for her backpack, and then… She, puts her shoes on and then leaves the house.
Ursula Marin: Right. So… there was a lot of things, a lot of things that you guys all did, and all of those things that she has to do can be… can be very frustrating, having to switch from one thing to another, and then losing track, because like, okay, yeah, wait, did I already wash my face? Or did I… or did I not wash my face? Or, which one do I do first? Unless you guys have a set routine, that can be very challenging. So, That's excellent. I really like your idea of just telling her, giving her a warning, okay, after this, you can do this or this. Giving choices is always great, but you always want to preview the next step for the routine. So, yes, next we're going to the bathroom. Which one do you want to do? And then, we want to connect, we want to create a connection, a bridge, right? For, for the next step. So, let's see… so, Sleep to Wake.
Parent: Yes.
Ursula Marin: Okay, so, sleep-to-wake is a very, very hard transition, because they usually don't want to wake up, right?
Parent: Right?
Ursula Marin: So, how would you, what could be a good bridge, you think, from… from sleeping to waking up, to the next stage, which is getting up and out of bed?
Parent: Well, usually how I do things in the morning is, I'll go in there and I'll kind of lay in bed with her. And, you know, I'll just kind of say, good morning, hello, hello, hello, you know, and just, you know, kind of be… funny with her, in a way, you know? At that point, then I'll kind of create some sort of, like. touching, so I'll kind of like, I like your beads in your hair, and… oh my gosh, let's see how many tickle spots you got.
Ursula Marin: And…
Parent: then I'll, you know… start kind of going from neck to toes, and I call… I gotta get her french fry toes, that's what we call them. It's french fry toes. So, she likes… That, you know, like, engagement, in a way. And then, you know, we'll kind of shift from that to opening the blinds so that she could have you know, light in her room, and realize that it's morning, and I'll be like, hmm, it's time to rise! Let's go look at the sunshine, and then, you know, we'll see about… opening the blinds. So sometimes I'll turn on the light in her room, because it's not so bright as maybe the sunlight is at that time, and then, you know, like I said, eventually transition into opening up the blinds.
Ursula Marin: That's excellent, and you… the lying down in bed with her is an excellent bridge between being asleep and being awake, and then the shift that you have from the bed to opening the blinds, also great. And then you also use the regulate step perfectly, with physical touches and tickles and being playful, and then you can launch and start your day. That was beautiful. Way to use this, and you're inherently, naturally, using all of these steps in the transition ladder.
Parent: Oh, okay, good.
Ursula Marin: Awesome. So, okay, actually, I want to switch gears. Also, on the survey, people asked for, people asked for scripts for these transitions, and so I've actually put together a, a document that Lily will share with you after the meeting, and so, but I wanted to, just go ahead and talk about some of these, in addition to the scripts, there's some notes that I wanted to share with you. So, with… sometimes, with regulation, you want to speak as little as possible. In addition of all the shifts that are happening in the brain. processing language adds an additional burden for the brain to, for the brain to be able to get the next task done. So, as much as you can, talk as little as possible. You know, use gestures, or facial expressions, physical touch, or, get near your child as much as possible, rather than giving verbal directions, because their brain is already trying to manage as much as they can, so silence goes a long way for a lot of this. So for screams, if the child refuses. sometimes a physical presence can be enough during resistance, so instead of just telling them that it's time to turn it off, if you just stay there, and then you don't go anywhere, and… but you're not sighing or frustrated, just give them a few extra seconds, you know, 10 to 30 seconds, and see if they can go ahead and turn it off on their own. That sometimes goes a long way. It might be a little bit better than, say, no, it's time to turn it off, because they're already trying to manage their emotions, this is already hard, they already ran into that transition triangle, and if we try to keep things from escalating, pausing and staying quiet sometimes goes a long way. And I've… I've written that, in addition to the… to the scripts, I've added these notes, so that you all can, see, and then if I've also added my email at the top of the… at the top of the handout, so if you have any questions, you can go ahead and, email me. And with that, I want to leave you with some things to remember tonight. The transition triangle. If anything else, if you take from this, I want you to remember that you are more likely to see emotional dysregulation if they have loss of control, if they have to change their attention, and if they have to manage their emotions. And then I also want you to remember that the brain is busy. There's a lot the brain has to do just for the one transition, like we just saw, right? Like we saw in our cooking example. And then touch is greater than words, so your physical touch and your presence regulates the nervous system more than you telling them, okay, like, it's okay, don't, don't, it's okay, don't be mad. It's gonna go a long way. And progress, not perfection. If you're trying to use some of these strategies and it doesn't work the first time, that's okay. You can always go back to the drawing board and review and think about what… what you might want to tweak next time. And, a little goes a long way with these strategies. So, thank you very much. This is all I had for you tonight. I hope you enjoyed this presentation.
Lily Ablon: Ursula, thank you so much. That was incredibly helpful. Honestly, that concept of bridge activities. makes so much sense and is really doable to implement. We can shift now to opening it up for questions, so feel free to drop anything in the chat, or you're welcome to unmute. With that, I will stop the recording.